Russian opposition politician Ilya Yashin has been behind bars for a month and a half. On June 28, the court jailed him for 15 days for “disobedience to the police”, but just hours before Yashin’s release from the detention center, it became known that a criminal case had been opened against him for publishing “falsifications about the Russian army” (Article 207.3 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation). Yashin faces up to 10 years in prison for telling a story about the murder of civilians in Ukrainian Bucha live on a YouTube channel.

Despite the long-standing threat of going to prison, Ilya Yashin, he said, deliberately remained in Russia and now hopes to turn his trial into a political platform. Ilya Yashin spoke about the philosophical attitude towards the arrest, the Western sanctions against the Russian Federation and President Putin’s new motivation in an interview with DW. The questions and answers were presented in writing through an attorney.

DW: How do you get over the idea that you might have to go to jail for a long time?

Ilya Yashin: Intrinsic motivation and philosophical attitude help. I understand that the arrest and imprisonment of those who disagree is an important and, apparently, inevitable step that our society must pass on the path of freedom. We must overcome our fear so that it is no longer such an effective tool in the hands of the authorities. It is impossible to turn into cattle, which are paralyzed by fear and meekly obey the herdsman’s whip. That is why, on the day of my arrest, I addressed the supporters with the words: “I am not afraid and you are not afraid”.

I know the truth is behind me. I see great and sincere support from people. And I’ve never felt more power than I do now. So whatever sentence the judge ends up saying, I’m sure I can handle it.

“Prison and prisons – a step on society’s path to freedom”

– You remained in Russia, almost certainly knowing of the impending arrest. Why were you, as a politician, not afraid of the threat of losing supporters due to enforced isolation?

– I think, on the contrary, I would lose many fans if I went abroad. But really, there is no other alternative for an opposition politician in Russia: prison or emigration. Note that even according to official opinion polls (taking into account the understandable fear of respondents), millions of citizens in our country are opposed to war. And among young Russians, these people are the majority.

This is my people. Some of their representatives may leave, but the people themselves are not going anywhere. And it’s important for me to be here, together with the people. This is how I understand my political responsibility. Yes, behind bars there are far fewer opportunities to appeal to society. But the value of the words spoken here increases many times over. I will try to make the prison and the court my political platform. I will definitely not be silent.

– Lately, in Russia, the number of people recognized by human rights activists as political prisoners has been growing at an unprecedented rate. How does this affect the possibility of positive change in the country?

– There is no mathematical formula to predict such changes. History is not an exact science. But the fact that Russian prisons are crammed with political prisoners certainly speaks volumes about Putin’s undermining. After all, if the leader does not doubt his own popularity, he is not afraid of criticism and does not need repression.

Once, the president was confident in his abilities and even reacted calmly to street protests. And now you can easily end up in a colony for a misspoken word. Putin’s weakening creates an objective chance for change. Yes, for some time you can maintain power by force and intimidation. But first, it won’t last forever. And secondly, you will inevitably get his name dirty in the history books. Although in Putin’s case, the dirt was mixed with blood.

The “elitism” of the democratic opposition is a trap”

– Many who disagree with the course of the authorities, often highly qualified specialists, are leaving Russia. Does this mean that changes in the country are becoming less and less likely?

– From my point of view, the changes do not depend on the qualification of who left and who stayed. The situation will take off when most citizens realize that it is impossible to live like this any longer. When it becomes obvious to the bus driver in Chita, and the teacher in Voronezh, and the manager in St. Petersburg, and the worker in Uralvagonzavod. Democratic institutions will only become stable if the majority perceives the direct benefit of their functioning.

The “elitism” of the democratic opposition is a trap we must not fall into again. The real task of the opposition is to popularize the ideas of local self-government, independent unions, political representation. Show what practical benefits these mechanisms bring and how much more effective they are than an authoritarian system.

I understand that this is a terribly difficult task. But without her decision, we will not succeed. So, by the way, I myself participated in the municipal elections and went to work at the district level. And I encouraged others to follow my example.

– Surveys by the Levada Center show that after the Russian invasion of Ukraine, noticeably more Russians began to approve of Vladimir Putin’s work and the direction of the country’s development. Why did this happen and what will make these people change their minds?

– As I said, any survey now must be analyzed with a discount on the fears of respondents. Putin taught society to live in fear for many years. War and mass arrests have exaggerated this fear. Imagine: you are sitting at home at night and watching TV. Soldiers and shooting tanks are shown. It is said that the Duma tightened the Penal Code again, that another opposition leader or journalist was arrested. Suddenly, the phone rings and an unknown voice asks: “What is your attitude, citizen, towards the president of the Russian Federation?”

Considering the country’s climate of military censorship, it’s surprising that anyone generally admits a dislike of authorities. And according to the VTsIOM survey (dated Feb 25, 2022.- Red.), 55% of 18-24 year olds and 45% of 25-34 year olds are against the war (that is, against Putin). It is important to understand that it takes courage to make such a claim in a conversation with a sociologist today. And that many people prefer to hide their true attitude for fear of pressure.

By the way, I think Putin himself understands the illusory nature of his ratings. Otherwise I wouldn’t have planted them all in a row.

“I admit that I didn’t quite understand the president’s motivation”

– The movie “The Term” shows your discussion with Ksenia Sobchak, during which you say that “Napoleon dreamed of creating a great empire, and Putin does not create a great empire. He is talking about grandparents”. Considering the invasion of Ukraine, is Putin no longer “about grannies” or has he never been that way?

– Ten years have passed since this dispute, and there is a feeling that Putin has had enough money during that time. By some estimates, he is now the richest man in the world. I admit that I didn’t fully understand the president’s motivation, although I still consider him to be an extremely greedy person who fears money and luxury.

But it is obvious that the desire for money was added to the desire to occupy a prominent place in the history books. Putin increasingly compares himself to Peter the Great, to great rulers. Of course, he wants to remain in the memory of generations as an important figure, the emperor. There is a problem with this plan: as they say, a hat is not for Senka. Putin’s critics often claim he is creating an evil empire. In practice alone, he gets an evil banana republic.

– In a recent interview, you said that Putin is running out of gingerbread for the population, only whips remain. How long are Russians willing to put up with whips?

– These things are unpredictable. The people in Russia are patient and afraid of revolutions. I often cite an example from Alexey Pivovarov’s editorial about the truckers’ protests. One of the drivers burned down the house, he literally lived off the ashes. At the same time, he refused to participate in the protests for fear that it would get worse…

But you know, any patience ends sooner or later. There is always a psychological limit beyond which even the most harmless geek in school will fight back a bully. The carrot and stick method is very effective in manipulating society. But whips alone will inevitably lead to resistance, it’s a matter of time.

– When Vladimir Putin somehow loses power, will Russia give up the confrontation with the West and the suppression of those who disagree with the official course? What does it depend on?

– It depends on who will replace Putin at the head of the country. And most importantly-we will be able to change the state system after he leaves. If the post in the Kremlin is taken by another populist who will demand superpowers “to restore order”, we will again enter the same historic turning point. I fear that the price of this mistake will be the collapse of Russia, because the country simply cannot stand another Putin.

Of course, it is not war that corresponds to Russia’s national interests, but cooperation with the West. As, by the way, and with the East. Our country has a unique geographical position, we can trade profitably with all over the world. We have everything to radically raise the standard of living, solve demographic problems, create a free and happy country.

What is needed for this? Just a functioning democracy and 50 years of peaceful development.

“Tough measures for warmongers” and a helping hand for the Russian people

– Some European countries now refuse to issue visas to Russians, large western companies have left Russia. How do you evaluate the West’s policy of isolating Russia? Will this make the Russians resent the West and unite them around the president?

– The decision of Western leaders to punish all Russians for the war unleashed by Putin strikes me as, to say the least, controversial. There is a feeling that there is more emotion in this decision than pragmatic calculation. Kremlin propaganda, of course, benefits from this, proving to our society that the US and Europe are motivated by Russophobia. Of course, such sanctions help to shape the image of the West’s enemy.

Much more reasonable seems to me the approach proposed at the time by Boris Nemtsov: don’t touch the country, but punish the scoundrels. Tough measures against thieves, murderers and warmongers must be accompanied by an open hand extended to the Russian people. Because my people are also victims of this political regime: some have been deceived, some have been intimidated and some have been repressed. Don’t push people away, they need to show an alternative.

– For the anti-war stance of Russian politicians sent to prison. Is it permissible for oppositionists to avoid the topic of war in the public field? How to be honest and not go to jail?

– I’m not ready to assume the role of someone’s conscience and indicate how to behave in this dramatic situation. Everyone has their own conscience. And I can only motivate others by personal example. For me personally, it is impossible to remain silent during a criminal war, it is impossible to look away and not try to stop this madness. Impossible, even if the price of such a position is prison.